This totally resonates with me. I struggled the same struggle with my Hannah. Spanking after spanking at bedtime. I was heartbroken and wanted to give up because I didn’t want her to go to bed so sad. But it was a rebellion and had to be done. It took 3-4 months for her to finally go to bed spanking free. And even though I was so heartbroken at the time - bedtime now is a very peaceful, enjoyable, loving experience.

The hard part now, is for me to remember this with all the other 3 year old training experiences I am presented with. The thing is, she is a different child. She is more persistent then my older daughter ever was, she is more sensitive than my older daughter and more lively - so I have to submit to the fact that she will need more training then my older one too. I did think that she “didn’t get it” and spanking wasn’t working. But I learned more about how to administer training and discipline. We do spank, but I have to know about what is going on with her heart at that moment in time to know when it is most effective. For her, in the middle of a meltdown - does not work. I walk her through the meltdown, then I train and discipline. This could be wrong - but it has worked for her. Understanding what is going on with her heart - has helped me tremendously with disciplining with patience instead of frustration.

in driving home this very point with a friend last summer, I countered her argument of only aiming for “behavior modification” with this quote from Ted Tripp’s “Shepherding a Child’s Heart”:

“A change in behavior that does not stem from a change of heart is not commendable; it is condemnable.”

Chapter 1 (Getting to the Heart of Behavior) will change your life if you are parenting young children.

One of the most powerful things a “seasoned” mom can do for the moms with little ones is to encourage them to persevere in the area of discipline.

You go, sisters!!

Can I share, not in opposition to your article in any way, some of my own shame, frustration, and guilt I carry?

First, I do know it’s not the Lord’s will that I carry shame and sorrow for anything. It’s hard for a mother not to feel that when she thinks she did wrong by her child, however.

When my first was a baby I read “To Train Up a Child.” It seemed so straightforward, Biblical, and right. My husband said it was the same way in which he was raised and supported it. So we followed the advice.

Obviously in the first 12 months there is very little that required any sort of discipline.

When Isaac’s behaviors started coming out the discipline “wars” as I think of them began. I read Dr. Dobson, I consulted our family doctor, talked with my parents and in-laws, lots and lots of reading on how to make it through this time, and it didn’t seem to be working. Yet I continued with the spanking anyway.

This is where the shame comes. Years later, I find out that Isaac has a language delay or possibly a language disorder and mild aspereger’s. And in those early years, due to his delays… there’s probably very little chance he understood me even 20% of the time. My heart breaks.

My heart breaks because now I understand WHY there would be the backlash after discipline, why the screaming, etc. Why he would seem so distant from me.

He did NOT understand.. and worst of all, was most likely thoroughly confused about why he was being disciplined (on top of all his other usual confusion). The only way we could introduce any sort of effective discipline was once the language hurdles were overcome. Which took therapy and many other visual interventions to teach him. Around age 4 1/2.

So my questions I guess I would pose to you are the ones I’m wrestling within my own heart now…

At what age do you begin spanking? Do you do it when you are certain the child can verbally understand you (such as your example with your oldest)? If you do it earlier, how do you reconcile it with the fact that perhaps the child cannot understand?

As I said - this is not in opposition or attacking in any way. I come to tears when I think back on that time, and how isolated in his own mind my son must have felt. Beyond not being able to communicate to me or understand my own words, but not understanding what was going on or why his mother would spank him.

Does EVERY parent go through the “getting out of bed” thing?

Thanks Brietta for the testimony :)

I can totally relate to this. I have said “this is not working, we should try something else” only to have my husband encourage that this is the only way. It seems as though whole days are spent disciplining. Thank you for your encouragement and instruction on this issue. Many shy away from sharing openly but, it’s nice to know that as a mom, we’re not alone. Thanks, Brietta.

Thanks for sharing this. I often think of you and Daniel when bedtime becomes a circus around here. I remind myself that His Word is true and that Gabriel is a total example of that!

I’m someone who once wrote, practically word-for-word, your same thoughts on discipline. After really turning the Scriptures upside down, I have re-framed everything. For example, the verses that seem to be advocating using the rod on our children are actually using the Hebrew word for teenage boys, NOT little toddlers. (The main/only verses I could find about toddlers were things about dandling/cuddling them on the knees, etc).

In other words, if we want to take the Scriptures literally, we’ll use the rod verses to advocate beating our older teens, not to spank little kids.

I’m not anti-spanking, so don’t get me wrong. I just started incorporating a lot more Scripture into my childrearing philosophy, as opposed to one particular flavor of it. The way my Parent led me as a babe and as a toddler/preschooler in the faith was so utterly gentle, so utterly PATIENT, so utterly forgiving of all my many many many (many!) foibles and flaws. Yes, He has brought the rod down on me, but it has been only very rarely. Very rarely. And even in those moments, I felt so very treasured and loved.

So these parenting books today that make us think we can actually shepherd a child’s heart though the use of the rod get me really frustrated, because in the name of “taking the Bible literally,” we’re actually not taking it literally at all. lol… We’re using verses that talk about beating teenagers (in a culture where beatings were common punishment for adults) and using them to tell parents they are “commanded” to spank their kids. When that’s actually not the “literal” meaning of the proverbs at all.

Also, what’s with the typical childrearing books and their concept of spanking a child into righteousness? I totally bought into that, too, and yet never considered how antithetical it is to the Gospel. Jesus wouldn’t have had to come at all if we could have been spanked into righteousness. The Law would’ve worked just fine, you know?

Anyways, all that to say that I now strive to parent in ways that are HEAVY in the things the NT tells us to be heavy in: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self-control.

I found that my former authoritarian style was a lot more about ME getting MY way (obey me now) than it was me growing in patience and gentleness. Don’t get me wrong: mom’s word is still law in our house. My kids obey. But I’m a lot different in how I go about helping my kids learn that.

Before, I demanded that they obey the first time, every time, instantly—-or pay the price of a spanking. But, er, that’s not reflective at ALL of how God parented me as a young babe. Ouch. And I want to reflect Him in my parenting. He was never standing over me with a switch.

And would I function best if I knew that someone was going to swat me everytime I failed to be perfect? Who in the world could thrive in that kind of environment???

As Katie shared so eloquently above, we just can’t go wrong with gentleness and with giving a young child the benefit of the doubt (instead of always seeing rebellion in everything they do). But you CAN really go wrong when you are so blinded by “enforcing obedience” and “nipping out rebellion” that you righteously continue harming your child in the name of so-called “Biblical” parenting.

My heart, like Katie’s, breaks over some of the things I did in the name of Biblical discipline with my first kids. I truly thought I was right (I was a follower of the Pearls) and was doing the best by my kids. But now, I can’t tell you enough how much I regret, how badly I wish I could go back and redo those years. And I am SO SO SO beyond grateful that God, in His mercy, helped me walk out of my miscomprehension of Scripture.

For what it’s worth, one of the best best best books I’ve ever read on parenting Biblically is by VanVonderan, “Families Where Grace is in Place.” It’s hands-down one of the most encouraging, uplifting, strengthening things I’ve ever gotten my hands on.

I read it after coming out of the authoritarian parenting paradigm I’d had, when I began checking out a lot of “grace-based” parenting books but was mostly really turned off by them. Someone told me that I had to get Families Where Grace is in Place and I finally did…after finding it waaay cheap on Amazon’s used book section. Wow. VanVonderan’s book is very conservative, very Scripture centered, and yet possibly one of the most challenging and edifying books on family life that I’ve ever come across.

And, btw, since you mentioned not wanting to take the easy way out, I have to say that parenting-via-spanking-all-disobedience was a LOT easier and faster than the way I parent now. The way I parent now requires me to actually form relationships. Ugh. Before, when I was authoritarian, it was my way or you paid the price, the end, no discussion. It was a lot less demanding on my to parent that way than to engage with the kid (and to consider what’s going on in his head) before I take action. Walking with the fruit of the Spirit brimming off my vine towards my kids is a LOT more work.

With warmth,
Molly
Mom of Five

@ Molly: There are lots of thoughts I have in response to your comment, but I think the best way to sum them all up is to ask you to stick around and keep reading. I hope that as we continue to share about God’s Word regarding discipline and training our children, you’ll see that Biblical spanking must be in the context of relationship, communication, love, and gentleness.

Another thought I want to share is that the only remorse and regret I feel over any spankings I have ever administered are the ones that were spawned in frustration; or when I didn’t also take the time to talk, pray, and love on my child as I went. When I write that spanking isn’t the easy way, I’m referring to spankings that are part of a process of engaging my children, getting to the bottom of issues, sharing Scripture, etc. I think your assumption that spankings are the antithesis of love and gentleness may be based on a misunderstanding of what a Biblical spanking really looks like.

“And I was so convicted. About my lack of consistency and thoroughness. . . . I was ready to settle for anything that would more quickly modify his behavior. I had to be reminded that while a punishment & reward system might very well change the bedtime pattern faster, the Bible says that it is the rod that drives foolishness. . . You see, not only does my son never get off his bed any more, but I know I have his heart in a way I didn’t a few years ago. . . . There are too many moments when I want behavior modification and I want it now!”

And how are “discipline sessions” of repeated spanks not B-mod? Seriously, I’m asking because spanking how it is most often taught in the church looks a lot more like the “positive punishment” of operant conditioning than what is seen in the Holy Scriptures.

I’m concerned that too often we as parents judge the “heart” of our child, too, by their outward actions. When we “hhepherd” their hearts with a rod, we judge their hearts by our perception of their outward shift in behavior or attitude.

Furthermore, I see within Christian parenting the impulse to be in the role of the Holy Spirit in our children’s lives. Just consider the idea of mom and the rod “driving the root of rebellion” out of their hearts. Where is Christ? Where is the Holy Spirit? Where is pointing our child to his need for the Gospel?

I’m not criticizing you as a mother, or your post. . . just sharing some food for thought, some questions I have asked and am continuing to ask. Questions that continually drive me to the Word and to my knees.

@ Alexa

Thank you for your thoughts and comments. Here are some ideas inspired from your food for thought.

The role of parenting is a position of authority by God because He is looking to us to shape our children and to advance their character in strength and maturity. We do this through teaching, praying, living an example, loving and showing mercy, and by disciplining when needed. The Holy Spirit uses my daily interactions in my children’s young lives, just as He uses my husbands words and actions in mine. Why God has chosen to use us, His church, full of weakness and yet full of His Spirit, is an amazingly wonderful thing which leaves us breathless with joy and dependence upon Him.

The scriptures make it clear that “the Lord chastens those whom He loves…” and that we are to likewise chasten our children. Chastening may take on many forms, and one which is commended in the scriptures is the rod, currently referred to as spanking in our culture. It is not intended to be punitive as much as corrective. And correction is a good thing to give to our children. Proverbs 12:1 says that “Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid. NIV”

Does correction modify behavior? That is, of course, the goal of most correction. A wise person, according to the scripture, takes that correction and applies it, resulting in a change of behavior and a change of heart. A wise person does that.

So, I think that faithful correction given in love and faith is one of the goals of Christian parenting — leading our young ones in Holy ways, letting them see the goodness and beauty, in faith and confidence hoping that they will see the beauty of God Himself.

I don’t know for sure how most Christian churches teach the use of the rod. This I do know: that I am responsible for careful handling of the Word, to faithfully encourage others in His ways, and to teach younger women to love their children. It must be clear: if all we do is not rooted in love, we have missed the mark.

Thank you for your thoughtful questions and comments! It is always good to consider these things afresh!

I have read so many oppositions to spanking, and I understand that it can be misused or can turn into abuse. But this website offers a consistant, informed manner for spanking that makes sense. I believe in spanking when it is used in this way. I remember even in school how it could be used effectively or misused. One of my personal memories of an effective spanking in school was in fifth grade. I was kind of a rowdy kid, not very focused, but not a bad kid either. The teacher was very understanding and kind, but also firm. She offered very consistant, reasonable punishments for misbehavior. She always said that spankings were a last resort. She rarely spanked. I had trouble staying in my desk, staying focused, being quiet, etc. She told me I would have to stay in during recess with my head on my desk if this continued - which it did. The first time I had to stay in, I hated it. I never wanted that to happen again, so it worked at first. Then it just became a common occurrence - during recess I was inside with my head on my desk. Even though I didn’t like it, I couldn’t seem to correct it. Then the teacher talked to me kindly and told me that the purpose of the punishment was to correct my behavior, not to continue punishing. She said that if my misbehavior continued, we would have to find a punishment that would be corrective. She suggested that it might have to be a spanking. I didn’t think very much about it except that I didn’t want a spanking, so I stopped misbehaving for about a week. Then the misbehavior started again. The teacher told me to stay in during recess for my punishment. She took me into the coat room, explained that she need to punish me with a spanking, since the other punishments hadn’t worked. She told me that the purpose of the spanking was as a punishment for misbehavior and as a way to correct the misbehavior. She asked if I understood. Then she explained exactly what I would expect from the spanking. She said that the spanking needed to hurt in order to achieve its purpose. Therefore, I needed to pull down my pants, but could keep my underwear on as it was meant to hurt but not to embarrass. She would put some water on the back of my underwear to make it cling to my bottom and not provide protection from the punishment. I wanted to know how many spanks I would get, and her calm answer was that she didn’t have a specific number, but would spank until she thought I had been punished enough to correct my behavior. She was calm during the whole procedure. Then she told me to remove my pants while she got the paddle and the water. I heard her running water and felt really nervous as I removed my pants. But I also knew I deserved this punishment and didn’t feel afraid of her. I trusted her. She returned with a wet sponge and a paddle that was smaller than I thought it would be, but had holes in it. She took the sponge and wet just the back of my underwear on my bottom. Then she sat down and told me to bend over her lap. I still remember every detail and how this felt. The paddle fell and at first I tried not to cry. It hurt, but I refused to let her know how much. I was stubborn, and I didn’t realize at the time that she knew this, and would spank until I broke this stubborness. The spanking continued at a slow, deliberate pace. Each spank stung and began to hurt so much that I finally began to protest and say that it hurt and try to squirm away. She just held me in place and didn’t respond except with the paddle. I remembered her telling me that it would hurt, that it was supposed to hurt. I knew I deserved it, and I gave in to the pain and began to cry. I cried and cried, but stopped struggling and arguing. This is when she stopped the spanking. I know now that this was the plan. The whole procedure was calm, fair, understood, and in order. I respected her, and knew that she had been fair with me, and that she seemed to want the best for me. The relationship we developed helped me to focus and want to do well. I also never wanted another spanking from her. I never needed another, but I started doing well in school and believe that she was the one who helped me most in my life. I thank her for it even though it was painful at the time. It was what I needed then.

@Michelle
Thanks for your words of testimony and encouragement! That is a great story!

I can relate to this story. It’s important to note that it was the relationship that really brought the trust and the change. The spanking was simply one tool, a last resort for correcting behavior. But it wouldn’t have been as effective if the relationship hadn’t already been one of trust and respect. I notice that even though there was nervousness, there was no fear because of trust. I also notice that the details of the punishment and the reason for it were clear and understood. She was told that it was supposed to hurt and bring change. She was told that it was not meant to embarrass. Great idea wetting the back of the underwear to enhance the sting without removing the underwear. That’s probably as effective as bare bottom spankings. And no specific number does not allow the child to simply endure the spanking for a certain amount of time. No number allows the parent / teacher to give an effective punishment. I think this is the way spankings are supposed to be carried out. In this way, they correct the behavior and enhance trusting relaionships. Thanks for the personal story.

Reading Michelle Miller’s story brought tears to my eyes as the memories of my own elementary school days came flooding back. I was “disciplined” in school in a very similar fashion as Michelle, but a bit different. I am an honest and hard working,contributing member of the community today because I had a teacher who cared enough and took the time and set me right. It all happened over three and a half decades ago.

I had to repeat grade 1 and was well on my way to failing grade 2 as well. I was a 7-8 year old with his head in the clouds,an over active imagination and didnt focus on his work. My report cards were full of comments describing how I disrupted the other students to where they couldn’t get any work done,I was noisy, wouldn’t stay in my seat, failed to respond to directions and would not listen.

My parents took me to parent/teacher night and I remember us four sitting in the quiet classroom discussing my behaviour and what to do about it. My teacher explained a lot of things in a quiet calm voice and I tried to answer her as best I could as my parents looked on. I dont remember what she said and none of it seemed to matter.Then I was sent out of the room and the door closed where I waited in the hall as they had their private meeting. My parents never explained to me what was discussed and we went home. A very quiet drive.

I would like to add at this point that I was never spanked before. Never. Not at home or anywhere by anyone. Dont think I even witnessed one.

Something new was happening at school now. When I didnt listen after being told to do something or told to behave, I was taken to the corner. The class went on as normal with me standing with my nose to the wall. Of course I tried to look around and that resulted in her moving a portable display board between me and the class,thus I was alone and out of view. It was embarrassing but didnt change my behavior. This went on numerous times. It seemed like a couple time a week or more.
One day she calmly told me to stay behind as the others went to recess. This was detention. I hated it. I hated sitting in the corner in the lonely classroom to eat lunch by myself, then head down,with her my jail guard. I may have tried to behave better at first but it didnt last because I found myself in detention again and again. She was growing tired of me. I was getting used to it so it wasn’t working.
One day while holding me back at recess we had a chat. It didnt really sink in what she was trying to tell me. How can a kid be afraid getting a punishment if they have never experienced that type of punishment before. She asked me did I want a spanking. I would have said no. I knew what a spanking was.
She explained to me that she gives a spanking when a students behavior refuses to change. It was to make me “learn to behave.” If I get held back again than she would have to spank me. She held my chin and looked in my eyes and asked if I understood and reached around with a light tap on the backside of my pants. Of course I answered yes. And then forgot about it.

I dont know how long but one day, after several attempts at gaining my attention I felt her hand on my shoulder and she told me to stay behind. I was nervous because then I remembered what we talked about. I ate a small portion of my lunch in the corner in silence. I didnt know this then but she was watching the clock. Just before recess ended she told me to come over to her. I was nervous.I knew what was coming next,or I thought I knew. She locked the door and hauled out a chair between her desk and the front row and sat down. She ordered me over her knee and she guided me. I was staring at the floor and she explained that its going to hurt. She was doing it to make be learn to listen, learn to behave. One arm holding me with her hand at my waist and her other spanked. I didnt like it but it didnt hurt. It stung after about the third or fourth swat and that got my attention. Then it began to hurt more, becoming warm. I never experienced that before and I remember the details quite vividly. It obviously worked. It stayed in my memory all these years. She continued to spank and it really began to hurt to where I began squirming and I felt some tears but then she stopped. She let me use the classroom washroom and ordered me to my regular desk. The other students were returning to class and I was just finding it very warm to sit. I thought they knew or would find out so I tried not to squirm in my seat.

I remembered this punishment and in the days that followed all it took was a stern look or a warning. But it didnt last. Maybe a week later I was in for recess again and over her knee,and again a short time later, maybe the same week. The swats were getting heavier and a lot more of them. I held my breath and tried not to cry.
Sitting still at my desk was getting harder to do when lessons resumed and I didnt want my classmates knowing about it, but the chair I was sitting on was on fire. This punishment worked. I remembered I didnt want to feel this again and began self regulating my behavior. I really tried. But it happened again and again. Nothing was getting through to me. I was still in a day dreaming world of my own, constant playtime. I was also getting used to the spankings. I was now able to endure until she had finished. She saw this. My mom got a call one evening and I know it was her. I know they were discussing my behavior problems. Something changed after that phone call.

I heard those dreaded words again. “Stevie,Ill see you after class.” My stomach sank. But I knew I could handle her! I was a stubborn, spoiled child and resisting her every effort to help. She took me and a chair to the little bathroom and sat down. I cried a complaint when her hands unfastened my pants. Actually pulling away, and slapping her hands away. I was put over her knee and she pulled the back of my pants down and underwear. Then she grasped the sides of my pants and underwear and the second tug took them all the way down. I was embarrassed because I knew I was bared. I resisted and fought. I remember pleading that she wasn’t my mother or father. I wasn’t pleading for forgiveness or repentant. I wasn’t sorry!! I thought only of myself. She pushed my shirt up to my neck and began spanking. It stung!!
The sting got my attention right away and it worked like never before. I knew she was serious. Her big hand landed again and again and the sound had an effect on he as well. I was humbled. I was being taught a lesson. I resisted on her lap. I pushed and arched my back and held my breath. I refused to let her win. I remember it like it was yesterday. I refused to submit. Like Michelle above wrote…my teacher knew this. She had to break my stubbornness. She spanked hard and My eyes welled up with tears and I complained that it hurt. I TOLD her to stop. But I was slowly learning that I wasn’t the center of the universe and wasn’t in charge.
I was growing tired of fighting and resisting. My bottom was stinging badly and hot!! yet I still squirmed and kicked and finally I cried. Once I cried I didnt stop and the spanking continued without her saying a word. By now my stubbornness was fading and I was growing still. I remember it like it was yesterday. She continued to slap my bare bottom and I settled right down on her lap and took my punishment. I took my spanking and cried,getting quieter now, and she spanked me for a good while after this point.It was only once I was still and sobbing my heart out did she stop.
I never told my parent about it. They knew though. My behavior improved immediately after this. I watched what I did and what I said and listened when spoken to. I stopped swearing, said yes please and thank you and ask for things politely, not demanding. It has made me the respectful adult I am today and I’m glad she had the courage to take me in hand, under her wing and give me a good long hard, sound bare bottom spanking. I wish my parents had the back bone to be firmer with me and not leave it up to some stranger in school. I hated the spankings and never wanted another one. I tried hard to never be back in that situation again.

I got in trouble by her one more time for fighting on the playground a while after that. It was her that came out and got me. I knew I was in for it and when she locked the classroom door I knew that was it. I also knew that I was going to do as I was told and listen. Once in the bathroom, like Michelle, I was told to pull down my pants. Unfortunately for me that meant underwear as well and as a 7-8 year old I was learning my place, the pecking order.
Part of the punishment was to submit and I did. I put myself across her lap and for the first,last and only time in my life, I got the paddle, my final spanking. The paddle was steady, consistent and extremely effective. My backside was warm almost immediately. If memory serves me correctly, this was a board about one foot in length, three or four inches wide and probably one inch thick. I tried to resist out of instinct but had no choice but to cry, and cry hard.. The paddle was much more intense than her hand and in no time at all I was a submissive blubbering child.
Like Michelle wrote, I dont think there was a set number of spanks, but gauged on your repentance. In my case though,probably judged on the visual effect it had on my bum also.

I was never spanked again.

The last two posts struck a chord with me and brought up a question. Both posters made the point that the spankings were fair, explained beforehand, and in order. They both seemed sensibly nervous but neither seemed panic stricken. What do you do in a case where the child goes into panicked hysterics when you try to have the discussion? I don’t mean playacting, but the real thing. As a child one brother and I did tend to totally flip out with fear. We’d try our best to bolt out the door and escape. But if escape was impossible we’d bite, kick, scratch, yank hair, etc in a desperate struggle to get away. No amount of calm reasoning would have helped; we were too worked up and overwrought to listen. No amount of threatening to make the spanking worse if we didn’t cooperate got through to us; it simply didn’t register. What would you do to help a child when he is unable to calmly take in the discussion? Do you go ahead and spank through the panic? Or wait, or..?? Any info on this gratefully accepted. As they say, the apples do not fall far from the tree.

I personally believe that spanking is to be reserved for major offenses. Like maybe you tell your child to do something and he screams no in your face or one child is mean to another child. For all the other offenses, I find it best to sit and talk with the child about what happened and why he did it and explain that we are sinners and that is why we do the things we do that are bad but we need to ask forgiveness from those whom we have offended and ask God for forgiveness as well. And once that is done is it best to have the child pray. I discovered this method after believe that I was supposed to spank practically every offense. My oldest child was reared under this method of spanking every offense and he responded well to it. My second child did not. He would bite his hand and scream and cry and practically hyperventilate. I realized early on that my second child needed a different approach. Recently after reading biblical advice on how to bring up a child I have realized that it is not right to spank every offense. We find it too authoritarian to spank every offense as we see with God he doesn’t discipline every offense we do against him but usually only the big offenses. I think it is punitive to spank for every offense. We have had trouble with our youngest getting out of bed at night and we dont spank him for it because he is genuinely scared of the dark. Each parent must judge the situation. But I have come to realize that no matter what I do, it is not spanking that will lead mt kids to the Lord but rather it is living a changed life and exhibiting the fruits of the Spirit! :) That is not easy at all!