First, any parent who has two or more children have children who fight. Anyway, this is a just and fair response to fighting. I would add that parents also need to be discerning and sensitive enough to see into the situation and to discuss with older children the greater impact they have in this fighting scenario for better or worse and apply the punishment or praise accordingly.

This is very helpful….Thank you!

I think that’s very fair! Great advice!

This is one of those sermons where the room gets quite and the preacher says, “can i get an amen!? …are you awake out there?”

I’m surprised this post hasn’t elicited more discussion and/or debate.

Our kids are not quite to the “fighting” stage yet, but Caedmon is learning that hurting Bethany in response to something she did (generally not something wrong) gets him a spanking. I think that spanking both offenders is also good in that it seems like it should help curb the finger-pointing that children are so prone to, and teach them to maintain a standard for their own behavior, even if a sibling is not doing the same at any given moment.

Along the lines of what Lori wrote, I have to say that this response helps teach self-government very well. At young ages, children are learning that regardless of what others do or what the circumstances around them are, there is a certain standard that they must live up to. In a day and age that makes all sorts of qualifications and justifications for good/bad behavior, this is an important lesson that can never be taught too soon!

I must admit that we don’t follow this rule for fighting. I can’t say that I’ve thought it out as to why I deal with fighting in my way, much beyond this is what I remember my mom doing. When my girls are fighting, I tell them to work it out. On their own, if possible, they must figure out how to make a smart decision in the situation. Who gets the first turn, why, for how long, apologies, forgiveness - I try to let them handle all of it without (much) outside input. Usually I have to remind one or the other to apologize or suggest an acceptable solution to whatever the problem is. If there was hitting involved, the one who did the hitting gets the spanking. The other is then asked what happened and if they were being intentionally annoying, they get one too.

I guess I like the idea of teaching the girls to think for themselves to figure out their problems. I’m usually not far away to oversee their discussions, so I try and make sure things are done fairly. While I see the benefit of the ‘two fight, two get spankings’ rule I also want to teach them to work things out, whether its with friends or siblings.

@Jackie: Regarding learning how to resolve conflict, this rule actually does teach that. Eventually, you learn that if you don’t fight back, you won’t get in trouble! (Oh, yes, I remember those lightbulb moments! :))

Enforcing this, as well as teaching the proper response to offense, is establishing a mindset of Matthew 18 — that speaking in love to the offender, and then bringing the matter before authority (parents in this situation) is the only correct response.

I think one of the things this rule addresses, which is lacking in many people’s “skill set”, is the fact that simply because an issue has been resolved doesn’t mean it was addressed biblically. If both kids have black eyes, but they finally got it figured out, well, great for them — but they’ve gotta also learn that it’s sin to punch one another in anger. Likewise, if after a fit of nasty tone and name-calling, they seem to have resolved things, great — but the Bible says we are to speak with love and not in anger, and that needs to be addressed.

As an aside, I think this rule can ruffle our feathers because it doesn’t seem “fair.” However, God doesn’t pride Himself on being fair — ever, actually. He is just, and that means He always does what’s right. And justice when two kids are sinning means that both sins be addressed — not just the initial sin.

Anyway, just more thoughts!

One more thought!

Having rules that are heavy on justice in place creates an awesome opportunity for parents to teach sin and grace.

Eldon Wilson likes to illustrate the gospel with a story that took place at my house. My younger brother had committed some crime, and my mother was disciplining him in the room next to the guest room where Dr. Wilson was staying. He heard her say, “Son, what do you deserve?” (sniffle) “A spanking.” “Yes, that’s right, you do. But son, I am going to show you mercy. Do you know what that means?…”

Pretty awesome!

I must say that I’ve applied both approaches depending on the situation (work it out/ two kids fight, two kids get spankings.)

I have been known to say, “Don’t come whining to me - have you told her that she hurt your feelings? Have you asked her to repent? Then you haven’t done your part yet.” That was my response when “tattle-taling” was happening.

The situation I think our questioner was addressing was the catfights that have already broken out, or the “I just walked in on a brawl” setting. We definitely had plenty of times when two girls were in tears, both in very emotional states, accusing the other of offense. Trying to figure out “who done it” and why and how, etc. was not only frustrating, but unnecessary. “She hit me!” “She kicked me first!” “But she took my doll!” “That’s because she grabbed my bear!” This could require the Supreme Court, and don’t they know it!

As Danica pointed out, at this stage of the game, both parties were in up to their necks. Our tendency is to feel bad for whoever was first offended. After all, it is understandable that they may have hit their sister - it is only natural to respond poorly to unfair conduct or injury. But that would be the point - it is natural - in fact, it’s downright carnal and we are looking to learn to walk in higher ways.

Consequently, two kids fight, two kids get spankings. They soon learned to respond to offense by asking for repentance from the other, and if that didn’t work out, they got help. But a poor response was never acceptable.

@ Danica - We do spank for physical offenses. Usually fights go two ways in our house. 1. Kid - “Moooo-ooomm, Sister took my doooo-ooollll.” Mom- “Are you whining? Change your tone, please.” Kid - “Mom, Sister took my doll without asking.” Mom - ” Did you talk to her or just come here to tattle?” And so it goes back to the go work it out yourself idea. Talk to your sister. With a reminder to do so in a nice tone, please. :-)
2. Whap! WAAAA!! Kid- ” Mooo-ooom, Sister hit me!” Mom - “Sister, did you hit?” kid #2 - “yes.” Mom- “Go to the bathroom and wait for me.” Mom to Kid 1 - “Why did your sister hit you? Did you do something to annoy her?” Kid 1 - “I stole her doll.” mom- “Okay, you wait here, you’re next.”

So we do spank when needed. But if the offense is between the two girls, they can work it out. If no physical harm has taken place I make them work it out. They’ve learned to change their tones, talk to each other nicely and figure out their solution. They are always reminded to ask each other for forgiveness. I guess for younger kids, I could see spanking every time they offended each other. But since mine are a bit older, they’ve maybe past that stage? I don’t know.

I have to say that the issue of “to spank, or not to spank.. that is the question” has been agonized over in this house quite a bit. Jacob came from a household discipline philosophy that I refer to “first response discipline.” It is most certainly a no nonsense approach and the kids seem to know what to expect should mom catch on. If mom or dad notices any behavior, it’s nipped immediately in the bud. My mother-in-law jokingly refers to a time when she literally kept a wooden spoon in her back pocket at all times. And we’ve heard stories of corporal punishment happening up to as late as 14 years old for some of the children.

Note I say “If mom catches on..” I have keenly observed that kids disciplined the same way in other families try to see what they can get away with more.

My parents took more of an approach where the crime determines the punishment. Much like what I read recently in Mary Pride’s Book “All the Way Home.” Did the child make a mess up her brothers’ room? Then she is to clean up her brothers’ room as retribution.

Coming from those vastly different viewpoints discipline has been a hot topic. We were given a copy of “To Train Up a Child” By Michael and Debbie Pearl. It made sense reading it with a baby. At age 1 Isaac was so sweet and compliant. But by age 2 (also without knowing his language delay at the time) I was ready to pull my hair out (I say myself, because Jacob was deployed at this time).

I felt like I was spanking more than anything else during the day and it needed to stop. Spanking had also lost it’s effectiveness.

So now discipline has taken sort of “what seems appropriate this time?” route. I’m not entirely comfortable with it because I want there to be specific structure that the kids can depend on.

If “2 kids fight, 2 kids get spankings” is the rule for fighting.. maybe you should also share what sort of misbehaviors deserve spankings and what other form of discipline you might use of minor infractions.

I think an important thing to note is that my parents didn’t just come into a room where there was a squabble going on and whip out a stick to nail the two offenders. There was always discussion about what happened, what the appropriate response should have been, training on how it ought to be handled next time, etc. The spankings are definitely administered specifically: to the first child for doing something wrong; to the second for retaliating instead of turning the other cheek.

Specifics of what misbehaviors result in spankings is probably a much bigger topic than can be answered in a comment (not so much because there are so many different punishments as because there is a need to really look at Scripture for this), but I will say that in our home, the criteria for a spanking is rebellion. This encompasses a lot, but I’ll save that for another time and day! I will recommend reading Shepherding a Child’s Heart by Ted Tripp as a great resource, especially if you’re looking for how to sort through training of toddlers– which is an age where it can be easy to feel like, “Where do I begin???”

@Brietta: “The spankings are definitely administered specifically: to the first child for doing something wrong; to the second for retaliating instead of turning the other cheek.”

Good and important thoughts.

…speaking of Shepherding a Child’s Heart, we need to get that book review section done!

AMEN to Danica’s answer!

I want to hear more from Danica and Brietta who are fruit, and Mrs. Sinclair who obeyed God and bore the fruit!
And of course I agree wholeheartedly with Brietta who wrote “…there is really a need to look at Scripture…”
To spank or not to spank should never be the question, since God already laid out the answer to that one in His Word.
I do agree with this statement: No amount of discipline can make up for a lack of training.
Any time in the past I felt like I had to spank “too much”, every single time it was because of a lack of training on my part (or at least a failure to follow a schedule or routine).
What an honor and priviledge it is to train up these precious ones. Thank you once again, Sinclairs, etc. for your wisdom!

For the record, if you tattle in this house- you get the same punishment as the offender.

When I first heard this piece of wisdom from your mom years ago I was elated! Not only did it prevent a perpetual case of “monkey brains,” but it helped lay a biblical foundation for my sons in resolving conflict according to Matthew chapter 18. You see (for those who don’t know) I have five boys ten years apart. With all that testosterone flowing through the air things would apt to get pretty physical if a conflict arose.

First and foremost, I wanted my sons to learn how to handle conflict according to God’s Word. This was my simple answer; two kids fight, two kids get a spanking. If your brother ripped a toy out of your hand then you need to nicely (using self-control) ask him for it back. If the offending brother does not hear you, then get the authority to come help with resolution (this is not considered tattling-although you must come without screaming and whinning). At this point it is my responsibility to guide the boys through the offense/conflict.

This is so much more than just keeping a mom sane (although thank God for that!) In the big picture it is about eqipping our sons and daughters how to relate to others according to His Word and His principles. Understanding this concept will serve them so well in later years!

Thank you, Danica, for sharing this post. Keep ‘em coming!

Jude